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+--- Thread: Round Robin gone? (/showthread.php?tid=1990)
Round Robin gone? - Elikian - 13-03-2007
The Estoril Open was supposed to be the next stage for all the Round Robin fuss, but the tournament chairman Joao Lagos said today that the system will not be used in Estoril.
The Round Robin system was supposed to be tested in 11 ATP tournaments this year: Adelaide, Delray Beach, Las Vegas, Vina del Mar, Buenos Aires, Estoril, Queen's, Portschach, Stuttgart, Umag and Stockholm.
I also read that ATP directors will meet next March 22nd, during TMS Miami, to discuss the system. ATP Player Council president, Ivan Ljubicic, declared that the Round Robin system shall be definitely terminated in this meeting, to never resurge again (so we all hope).
- Scholten! - 13-03-2007
Yes!! Positief nieuws, dat systeem is ook echt waardeloos.
- _Tampie - 13-03-2007
Daar zijn ze gelukkig snel achter. Wat een drama is dat zeg. Die wedstrijd van Blake-Del Potro was natuurlijk wel het toppunt.
- Elikian - 13-03-2007
Ik vond de soap met Ferrero en Devilder in Buenos Aires anders ook een topper
- andre - 13-03-2007
Deze gevallen kwamen niet door het RR-systeem op zich, maar door de rare regels bij gelijk eindigen.
Neemt niet weg dat RR gauw moet ophouden.
- THE MAILMAN - 13-03-2007
_Tampie Wrote:Daar zijn ze gelukkig snel achter. Wat een drama is dat zeg. Die wedstrijd van Blake-Del Potro was natuurlijk wel het toppunt.
Korolev heeft er wel de lol van ingezien en mocht verder ballen. :razz:
Maar gelukkig zien de heren in de skyboxen nu ook dat dit systeem NIET werkt. Het wordt dus gewoon ouderwets weer: als je wint mag je nog een potje, als je verliest ga je naar huis als zijnde de zwakste schakel. TOT ZIENS.
- _Tampie - 13-03-2007
andre Wrote:Deze gevallen kwamen niet door het RR-systeem op zich, maar door de rare regels bij gelijk eindigen.
Neemt niet weg dat RR gauw moet ophouden.
Je kunt moeilijk penalties laten nemen bij gelijk eindigen. Je moet dan wel naar 'doelsaldo' gaan kijken en dat is dus een drama. Wie de eerste wedstrijd 6-2 6-2 verliest is kansloos maar moet dus nog een keer. Dat had men kunnen voorzien.
De reden van het invoeren van het systeem was volgens mij dat de toppers minimaal 2x zouden spelen, en dat is dan leuk voor het publiek. Een aantal echte toppers spelen zowiezo niet zoveel toernooien en komen dan vrijwel altijd ver. Davydenko zou je gewoon een limiet van 25 toernooien moeten opleggen, dan is hij misschien wat vaker gefocussed in de eerste ronde.
- Elikian - 13-03-2007
Bovendien: toppers die de 1e wedstrijd verliezen hebben gewoon geen zin om nog een keer voor spek en bonen te komen optreden. Gaudio heeft na een verloren 1e partij nooit meer een 2e gespeeld bijvoorbeeld.
- Mist - 13-03-2007
Gaudio is geen topper.
- Mist - 13-03-2007
Hier trouwens nog een heel artikel van een dag of wat geleden, diverse (echte
) toppers geven aan er genoeg van te hebben:ATP Players Council Vice president James Blake opposes the
continuation of round-robin tournaments.
FROM THE PACIFIC LIFE OPEN AT INDIAN WELLS - Say so long to the ATP's
round-robin experiment.
In an incredible and ferocious condemnation of the ATP's trial with
round robins in World Series tournaments, three of the tour's top
players - Roger Federer, Andy Roddick and ATP Players Council Vice
president James Blake - all said that the experiment should be blown
up and it appears that the format danced its last waltz last week at
the Tennis Channel Open in Las Vegas.
Roddick believes that when the tour's Board of Directors holds its
meetings in two weeks at Miami, that they will vote to kill it.
"I think we've seen the last of it," Roddick said "I don't see how you
can get around, pull-outs, going to a match and having to win five
games and hit three drop shots to advance to the quarter, a million
other things. There's too much left to the players, whether if it's a
friend, maybe dodging a game to let another one through; I just think
there's too many holes in it. And I think it's a good example of why
you can't look at tennis and treat it as a business because there are
players involved and matches are won and lost. It's not completely a
show."
Blake, who was involved in the Las Vegas controversy when he was
briefly advanced to the quarters and then was later told that Evgeny
Korolev would get through, said that a round-robin format should only
be used for the year-end Masters Cup.
"Diplomatically I'd say, we'll revisit it. We'll talk, but I don't
want it anymore," he said. "There's too many variables. There's too
many possibilities of matches that could turn into basically
exhibitions or after one set they could turn into exhibitions. I don't
want to see more round-robin tournaments that get decided on who goes
through by a rule, as opposed to by who wins a match. To go out there
with the scenario of going out to win by a certain score, it's not
natural. You wouldn't tell a basketball team to go out and cover a
line, like a Vegas spread. You'd tell them to go out and win the game.
"It's just a little bit of an unnatural feeling as an athlete. We
tried it; we experimented. I don't think it's worked out all that
well. I don't know the research or the results from the fans, but we
need to take that into consideration, but in my opinion, it's not
worth it. . I don't know how much they know about whether or not the
guys are trying out there. Whether they're trying 95 percent or if
they're really giving 100 percent in an exhibition match. Hopefully
the best thing that might come of it is that round robins might be
going by the wayside, which would be, in my opinion, a good thing."
Federer has disagreed with the experiment from the start and said he
was pleased that it has begun to fizzle.
"I knew that that was going to happen, that with somebody pulling out
and something," he said. "I'm not at all in favor of it. I think it's
never gonna happen, but maybe one player helps another player to get
maybe the top guy out, who then eventually could win the whole
tournament, the whole thing. I just thought there was too many
problems with the whole system, and so I'm happy a problem arose. And
unfortunately, it always takes a few players involved that everybody
kind of wakes up."
DE VILLIERS CALLED FEDERER
ATP CEO Etienne de Villiers actually called Federer last week in Dubai
during the controversy to get his take on the situation and the Swiss
didn't appear sympathetic. de Villiers had first decided against ATP
rules that Blake should get through and then reversed himself.
"Your problem, you know," Federer told the CEO. "I'm over here. He
apologized. I think it's terrible what happened. I didn't decide
anything, I was just listening."
Speculation as to who called de Villiers in Las Vegas can now be
slightly laid to rest. Blake was told when he came off court last week
after Juan del Potro had retired in the second set that he would get
through, but then was told he wouldn't, so he went to the on-site ATP
officials and asked for clarification. It appears that it was ATP
Supervisor Mark Darby or some other ATP official who called de
Villiers, not Blake or Tennis Channel Open TD David Edges.
"My initiative was just going in to talk to Darby about it, learn
about the rule, to find out what was going on, how this happened, how
come no one let us know of the rule," Blake said. "And it just kind of
spiraled into a long discussion. And before we knew it, we were on the
phone with Etienne. I don't know who initially called him, but we just
decided maybe we need to get more people on the line as to figuring
out this situation."
Now to more politicking: de Villiers' proposal to mandate eight
Masters Series tournaments in 2009 and enforce participation with the
threat of suspension is also facing some serious opposition. Marat
Safin has already come out against it, and now Roddick and Blake have
stated that they will stand against it.
"It's not to say that it's totally unfair, because if people are just
skipping [tournaments], then there needs to be punishment," Blake
said. "But if people are injured, that's where the gray area is,
'cause some of the sponsors or the powers that be maybe never played
tennis, maybe never played sports. They don't understand the wear and
tear that your body takes over an entire year or entire career. .
Sometimes, I think they're a little bit cynical and doubting of
whether or not the injuries are real. If it just happens that I get
injured right before an Asian swing, people might think I just don't
want to get on a 14-hour trip or I get injured right before the clay,
many people think I don't want to play on the clay. Sometimes those
injuries do happen.
"So it's a matter of finding a way to punish those that are just
skipping and not punishing those who are legitimately injured. Because
it doesn't make sense to have a back injury and then get on a 14-hour
flight to go over to Asia just to do a media day, and what's best for
the tour, to be honest, is to have me back healthy. We need to find a
way to kind of compromise."
Roddick believes that by forcing players to compete too much, the out
will lose sight of its goal, which is to keep players healthy and in
front of the fans eyes.
"If they don't show up for one, you suspend them from another? I don't
really see how that's keeping your top players in events," Roddick
said. "I don't know if that's common sense and I'm just missing
something."
There are some who believe that the top players should be able to pick
five or six of the Masters Series and divide them up, so every part of
the world at least gets to see some stars. But Roddick doesn't believe
that players should be threatened with suspensions.
"I just don't think you can set it in stone because the injuries play
a part in it," he said. "You can't make things black and white when
there's a lot of gray areas as far as injuries. You're going to get
suspended because you have a sprained ankle and, they want like MRI
proof or something like that? I think that's a little bit ridiculous,
and I don't know if it totally makes sense in the scheme of sports."
Of course, the players have to realize that the Masters Series
tournaments pay huge dollars to earn that designation and they won't
keep putting up the big bucks unless they are guaranteed top stars.
Plus, the ATP Board of Directors has forever been tipped in favor of
the tournaments, so the players might be fighting a losing battle in
this instance.
"I agree with [the Masters Series getting top players] as long as they
can understand the rigors that take place in tennis," Roddick said. "I
understand to get the support for it, you have to have the guys
showing up, and I understand the premise of it. And I respect the
premise of it. There was no wiggle room in the round robin. I just
don't want to run into another problem like that and I fear that might
happen."
- Mist - 21-03-2007
En het is definitief:
Quote: ATP Ends Round Robin Experiment<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.atptennis.com/en/news/2007/roundrobin.asp">http://www.atptennis.com/en/news/2007/roundrobin.asp</a><!-- m -->
The ATP Board has voted to end the experimentation with round robin formats on the ATP tour, it was announced today. The remaining events who had initially volunteered for the round robin format will now revert to the original knock out competition.
The ATP had begun testing several versions of the format at lower level events this year following initial research that indicated it could be a measure to provide significant growth to the game.
The research showed it was popular among casual fans because it gave them more opportunity to see their local and favorite players than in a traditional knockout format. The format also had the added benefit of allowing tournaments to showcase their marquee players deeper into the tournament week and made TV scheduling of matches easier and more promotable.
However, the carefully monitored testing at the five test case events this year raised a number of concerns and weaknesses that were not apparent from desk research. Firstly, the 32 hybrid format caused confusion; second, resolving who would progress from the round robin stage with 3 men groups was often complicated; and third, sections of the media had difficulty in reporting round robin and consequently fans not at the event had difficultly in following early results. Finally, and significantly, no format or rule could address the overwhelming player concern that their destiny was not in their own hands as a result of dead matches or withdrawals.
The ATP Board considered all the research and analysis gathered during the experiment both from outside research agencies and tournament volunteers and concluded while there was a considerable amount of encouraging data, in the end the negatives outweighed the positives.
ââ¬ÅThe ATP is determined to be fact based, and not opinion led. Weââ¬â¢re committed to a philosophy of ââ¬Ëdo it, try it, fix it or lose it,ââ¬â¢ with initiatives that could grow our sport,ââ¬Â said ATP Chairman and President Etienne de Villiers. ââ¬ÅWe take all stakeholders into account, especially our players and tournaments, when we make decisions but will always have a fan focus.ââ¬Â
ââ¬ÅIt was a good experiment and we learned a lot from it. Some experiments will work and others wonââ¬â¢t, but we will keep trying to find new and better ways of growing the appeal of menââ¬â¢s professional tennis,ââ¬Â de Villiers said.
- Ad Wim - 21-03-2007
Mooi!
Wel goed dat ze het geprobeerd hebben.
- Mac - 22-03-2007
woeeeeeeh